tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post3806322389008147505..comments2024-03-19T00:11:46.679-07:00Comments on The Prodigal Academic: Search committee math, or what does it mean to have 200 applicants for a position?prodigal academichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00433167641213112052noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-18245812345325632902013-10-06T06:07:37.885-07:002013-10-06T06:07:37.885-07:00Any thoughts on how candidates on alternative yet ...Any thoughts on how candidates on alternative yet still academic career paths might fare? I'm specifically interested in the "at least one postdoc" requirement. In your experience, would someone with no postdoc but instead an overseas research lectureship compete, all else being equal? Nice post, thank you! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-88063224447146023812010-09-21T08:50:14.898-07:002010-09-21T08:50:14.898-07:00@Anon 10:17
In my experience, it is unusual to ret...@Anon 10:17<br />In my experience, it is unusual to return to the pool unless something unusual happens (like more than one of the short list candidates declines the interview). You never know, though. All kind of weird things happen in searches.<br /><br />@Anon 7:54<br />I've heard that things are totally nuts in the life sciences. Scary that portable funding is a requirement for a TT position!prodigal academichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00433167641213112052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-35338042640611936052010-09-21T07:54:09.920-07:002010-09-21T07:54:09.920-07:00At my school there is one other big factor that ri...At my school there is one other big factor that rises above all others in the hiring process - research grant funding. It is a de facto requirement that there be both 1) a record of past research funding and 2) the applicant will be bringing an active grant with them as a new hire. Yes, this is for beginning TT positions, with people coming directly from postdoc. A top 20 medical school.<br /><br />Grant funding is a must-have to get a job in biomedical research. We use that to cull the initial list down to a short list. It generally is true that all the top canidates, as judged by the other criteria of papers, school pedigree, etc, will also have funding. So get that K99, Burroughs, K08, etc, or be automatically lumped in the bottom of the applicant pool.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-85615681721128045602010-09-20T10:17:26.546-07:002010-09-20T10:17:26.546-07:00Thank you so much for this helpful blog!! I just...Thank you so much for this helpful blog!! I just sent out my first application. It was rather exciting to draft out my first research proposal. Anyhow, I just found out that I didn't make the short list (n=9) but they are keeping me on file in case they need to interview more candidates. In your experience, how often do committees look beyond their first short list?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-52162574414522989712010-07-17T10:42:24.744-07:002010-07-17T10:42:24.744-07:00We don't care about citizenship, as long as th...We don't care about citizenship, as long as the person is eligible to get a visa to work. We want the best person we can find, and if that person is not a US citizen, we support their visa application. Prodigal U does NOT pay immigration fees, but does pay moving costs (even for overseas moves). This is highly university dependent (some pay both, some pay neither).prodigal academichttp://theprodigalacademic.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-91121726614926937432010-07-12T05:57:00.065-07:002010-07-12T05:57:00.065-07:00How does citizenship factor in? The fundamental ba...How does citizenship factor in? The fundamental basis for visa applications (and Congressional legislation) is that there is a shortage (that we know to be a myth) of skilled workers (researchers, faculty, engineers, etc.). Your blog has nicely detailed that there is no shortage, but instead a very large pool of highly qualified candidates.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-81898030593335682842010-06-03T17:37:21.344-07:002010-06-03T17:37:21.344-07:00K. Tyson--where did I say that we selected people ...K. Tyson--where did I say that we selected people based on gender or ethnicity? Given all the data out there about problems in judging qualifications and gender/ethnicity, we do a quick check to make sure we didn't accidentally overlook someone because their name triggered an unconscious bias.<br /><br />It is a fact that the percentage of women and minorities in professional orchestras dramatically increased when they went to blind auditions, while the number of female conductors is stagnant (and blind auditions are impossible). We are in the same boat--nominally selecting by merit, but possibly blinded by unintentional bias, so we try to make sure we aren't as best as we can.<br /><br />True AA would try to compensate for lack of opportunity for women and underrepresented minorities, but we don't do that formally.prodigal academichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00433167641213112052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-81168623539509508732010-06-03T09:53:05.928-07:002010-06-03T09:53:05.928-07:00Well said, Drug Monkey.Well said, Drug Monkey.K. Tysonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-37790889980347017102010-06-03T09:51:43.843-07:002010-06-03T09:51:43.843-07:00I am sorry, but looking at a name to determine som...I am sorry, but looking at a name to determine someone's gender (or ethnicity) is bias and AA! How do you know that Sam Thomas is not short for Samantha or Sequita? And what about tall people--do you have enough tall people? What about people with red hair or those with pimples?<br /><br />Under no circumstances would I want to be selected for a position based on the fact that I am a woman. In fact, I would refuse a job offered to me under those conditions because it is an insult.K Tysonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-3354567326821807192010-05-25T10:00:29.314-07:002010-05-25T10:00:29.314-07:00Dr. ATD (and this is a serious question)--after so...Dr. ATD (and this is a serious question)--after someone is well over the minimum qualified bar to be a TT professor what does it mean to have higher qualifications? Once someone is qualified, they are qualified, and it is very difficult to determine who is "higher qualified" without context. Is it more publications (but what if their advisor favors least publishable units, while another advisor prefers long meaty papers?) Is it more citations (also advisor-linked)? Is it a better research fit? <br /><br />If departments use research fit as a guide (and they do), how is this different from either hiring someone AND their spouse to get the benefit of both? Or a different department taking a chance on someone who they don't pay full freight for and get a new line to accommodate? No department that I know of will accept someone unqualified for the TT as a TT spousal hire--they might offer a postdoc or research associate position, but no way a TT position UNLESS the spouse is qualified. <br /><br />I can say that I personally know a couple that chose a lower ranked university because they got a spousal hire there. That university got a great deal at minimal cost to themselves, since they attracted a much bigger fish than normal and got the well-qualified spouse as well. It will also be that much easier to retain them.<br /><br />At my University I know three people who are bi-coastal (they are on one coast, spouse is on the other). Although they are awesome scientists, great colleagues, and excellent teachers, my University does not receive the full benefit of employing them, because they are always flying back and forth to their families (or hosting their families locally). They try to get 3 or 4 day weekends as much as possible which they do not spend here at the University. They pack their service obligations into mid-week. They are hardly ever on campus during the summer. Is it worth it to tell people this is what it takes to be on the TT? I would say no.prodigal academichttp://theprodigalacademic.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-92223659104319273712010-05-24T22:06:17.008-07:002010-05-24T22:06:17.008-07:00I still find all nepotism, including this repugnan...I still find all nepotism, including this repugnant spousal hiring practice, to be repulsive and extremely unethical. You said nothing about the other candidates with much higher qualifications than the trailing spouse. The limiting reagent in life is opportunity.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06538844306581396090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-38200882572327803722010-05-24T13:14:14.855-07:002010-05-24T13:14:14.855-07:00DM, I suppose you are right. I was thinking about ...DM, I suppose you are right. I was thinking about more direct AA--I know a couple of places that will provide extra money to bring out a 6th or 7th candidate to improve the diversity of the interview pool. What we actually did was do a quick estimate of the number of women in the pool, and found that our long list and short list both reflected that fraction pretty well.prodigal academichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00433167641213112052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-73186031204712110562010-05-24T10:38:21.096-07:002010-05-24T10:38:21.096-07:00If we could identify other underrepresented minori...<em>If we could identify other underrepresented minorities, we would do the same, but that is pretty much impossible from the applications. This is NOT AA. We are doing this to make sure we didn't overlook a file due to unconscious bias </em><br /><br /><br />And what, pray tell, do you think Affirmative Action is if not this?DrugMonkeyhttp://scienceblogs.com/drugmonkeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-82932636517212425062010-05-24T09:42:55.469-07:002010-05-24T09:42:55.469-07:00A step you apparently don't do, but that we do...A step you apparently don't do, but that we do routinely, is phone interviews. We do this at about the equivalent of the 35 applicant stage you describe here; that is, after going through CVs and the like.<br /><br />Phone interviews are often highly revealing, and can give a very good sense of things that you can't get from reading someone's CV.Zen Faulkeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07811309183398223358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-10684614339156400352010-05-24T08:50:17.110-07:002010-05-24T08:50:17.110-07:00This is so useful, PA, thanks for posting! Intere...This is so useful, PA, thanks for posting! Interesting to know you look for 2nd-author papers--I hadn't really thought about that!Beccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08560202798168034844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-84450767155434785012010-05-24T03:47:05.021-07:002010-05-24T03:47:05.021-07:00Yeah, that happened to me too, and it totally suck...Yeah, that happened to me too, and it totally sucks. Wastes everyone's time.<br /><br />In our department, we prefer to argue about the department's needs in the abstract (rather than as embodied by candidates), so that is why we like to pick the target sub-field first. <br /><br />When I was the outside committee member for another department (which is a nice idea, I might add--people are on better behavior in front of outsiders), they places a very general ad, and looked for the "best" person. This worked OK because they definitely favored people who would bring new techniques/subjects to the department. It did make evaluating the candidate's merits somewhat harder, because different sub-fields have different publication standards.prodigal academichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00433167641213112052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-7789677627113069902010-05-23T09:26:12.244-07:002010-05-23T09:26:12.244-07:00I like the idea of doing the subarea priority FIRS...I like the idea of doing the subarea priority FIRST, rather than last.<br /><br />I recently interviewed for a position where they went with someone who works on something that is almost the opposite of what I do. I didn't feel like that was a fair comparison and I kind of wish they had spared me from getting my hopes up when I apparently didn't really have a chance. I found out later from another source that the department has some internal political stuff going on, but I wish they hadn't wasted my time with it.Ms.PhDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06542602867472447035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2068615175426357203.post-23694072724875361472010-05-22T15:15:28.386-07:002010-05-22T15:15:28.386-07:00Thanks for the post! Very true.
In my department...Thanks for the post! Very true. <br /><br />In my department (fairly large) there is the additional initial step of which subarea priority to hire a person. There's some powerful intradepartmental politics at that step, and when the decision to make an offer is finally made. Candidates are usually not aware how much this aspect shapes the outcome of the search.GMPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17872461021953583473noreply@blogger.com